A New 'Gimmick'
Because Satan Was Laughing!
For the past couple of days I watched a debate rage at what I consider a serious Christ centered site. The debate raged from last Thursday through at least this Wednesday.
The debate covers two 9 page posts (18 pages), with, at last count, 200+ comments. These comments are not your fly by three line comments. The comments themselves are 140+ pages (in MS-Word using wide margins). Here is where it gets strange. The first 9 page document is a “Doctrinal Statement” written and signed in 1999. Yes, seven years ago the writers and signatories signed, sealed, and delivered it. The document ends with a set of declarations. The debate centers on one phrase in one sentence of one declaration. (Arguably, an important sentence, however; I found the other declarations ‘clarified’ the point as to make the argument moot - obviously not so to others.) The second 9 page post was a 'clarification' of the 'one phrase'!
We are supposed to be ‘faithful Bereans’ (Acts 17:11) and study ‘declarations of man’ to determine if they are Scriptural. One could ask if the document presented ‘Another Gospel’ (2 Peter 2:1-3, Gal. 1:6-8, 2 Cor 11:3-4), which to some, was the ‘heart’ of the argument based on one phrase! Do not mistake me - if that one phrase did indeed ‘change’ the Gospel of Christ (which to me it did not), then one should (at least) discard it.
What bothered and bothers me, is:
A. The document is seven years old, so it is not subject to change (only subject to discard by those that disagree with it - or edited under their own signatures).
B. The document in question is not the ‘Doctrinal Statement’ of any specific denomination or organization - it was an interdenominational effort signed by members of numerous denominations and organizations (as such - not a ‘binding’ document).
C. The REALLY big one, I could not help but think that Satan was laughing as these very genuine, learned, dedicated, and godly people argued the point.
Why was Satan laughing? Here were 10+ active contributors (and who knows how many passive readers - like myself) that were distracted from the basics of Christianity for a week! While arguing the point, there was certainly a lack of ‘obey’ & ‘glorify’. Some of the comments bordered on unrighteous anger. While busily responding to this ‘overriding’ argument, there was very little sharing the Gospel of Christ. The ‘prima facie’ evidence of my claim of distraction is in phrases (among others) like, “I have to go; my wife is telling me I’m blogging to much.” “I’m logging in from the church office between services.” (As far as I can tell, the issue remains unresolved.) The bottom line is where is the ‘Christ-like’ attitude and being about “My Father’s Business”?
Where is the balance? The article here, “Simply Seeking Simplicity” talks about the four basic elements of Christianity. Obedience, glorifying God, spreading the gospel, and searching the Scriptures as the foundation by which we live for Christ.
So, here is the “NEW GIMMICK”. I am starting the L4C-T Blog Ring. It is the “Living 4 Christ - Today” blog ring. What is the L4C-T and what is its purpose? The L4C-T blog ring is a list of sites that I have found that are primarily concerned with the ‘nuts and bolts’ of living every day for Christ. Theologians are fine; they are in many respects necessary. However, I return to a verse I referenced above, 2 Corinthians 11:3, “But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.”& another, “For our boasting is this: the testimony of our conscience that we conducted ourselves in the world in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom but by the grace of God, and more abundantly toward you.” 2 Corinthians 1:12
The focus on this blog primarily is ‘spreading the gospel’. That is what we try to do here. It is one of the four ‘by the numbers’ requisites to developing a Christ-like attitude, and being about “My Father’s Business”
We are linking (initially) to two other blogs (they do not know it yet) here in this article and in the sidebar under the “L4C-T Blog Ring” heading. (Some I.E. users have to scroll down to the bottom of the page to see the side bar).
The first is “Pulpit of the Last Days” (POLD). POLD has a ‘Basic Discipleship’ Course set up in modules to take one through many of the fundamentals of basic Bible/Christian doctrine, theology, and the pursuit of a Christ-like attitude by getting to know Christ better from the Scriptures.
The second is “Get Out of the Boat” (GOTB). GOTB is down and dirty basic encouragement. It is very practical encouragement, reminders, and lessons for living every day for Christ.
We will add sites (with an explanation) when they come to our attention. If you have a site suggestion, you can always email me (link in the sidebar) or post a comment.
I will leave the theological, exegetical, lexicographical, hermeneutical, linguistical 200 page debates to those more suited to it. I am a simple man, trying simply to live for Christ.
If you want to know what (I consider) the ‘fundamental doctrines’ of faith and a world view based on the Bible looks like visit my Views: Christian Studies & Principles August Archives. If you want to write 200 pages of debate on a phrase that you find to be ‘questionable’ Biblically, go ahead; just do not expect me to participate. If you do see something that you do not think is Biblical or needs re-wording for clarity - address it simply and I will respond to it, by editing it, clarifying it, or changing it (as I have done posts in the past).
Trying to K.I.S.S. what it means to be a Christian… To develop a ‘Christ-like’ attitude and Be about “My Father’s Business”
Unchained Slave
Please see the ‘Comments’ section for an important note.
The debate covers two 9 page posts (18 pages), with, at last count, 200+ comments. These comments are not your fly by three line comments. The comments themselves are 140+ pages (in MS-Word using wide margins). Here is where it gets strange. The first 9 page document is a “Doctrinal Statement” written and signed in 1999. Yes, seven years ago the writers and signatories signed, sealed, and delivered it. The document ends with a set of declarations. The debate centers on one phrase in one sentence of one declaration. (Arguably, an important sentence, however; I found the other declarations ‘clarified’ the point as to make the argument moot - obviously not so to others.) The second 9 page post was a 'clarification' of the 'one phrase'!
We are supposed to be ‘faithful Bereans’ (Acts 17:11) and study ‘declarations of man’ to determine if they are Scriptural. One could ask if the document presented ‘Another Gospel’ (2 Peter 2:1-3, Gal. 1:6-8, 2 Cor 11:3-4), which to some, was the ‘heart’ of the argument based on one phrase! Do not mistake me - if that one phrase did indeed ‘change’ the Gospel of Christ (which to me it did not), then one should (at least) discard it.
What bothered and bothers me, is:
A. The document is seven years old, so it is not subject to change (only subject to discard by those that disagree with it - or edited under their own signatures).
B. The document in question is not the ‘Doctrinal Statement’ of any specific denomination or organization - it was an interdenominational effort signed by members of numerous denominations and organizations (as such - not a ‘binding’ document).
C. The REALLY big one, I could not help but think that Satan was laughing as these very genuine, learned, dedicated, and godly people argued the point.
Why was Satan laughing? Here were 10+ active contributors (and who knows how many passive readers - like myself) that were distracted from the basics of Christianity for a week! While arguing the point, there was certainly a lack of ‘obey’ & ‘glorify’. Some of the comments bordered on unrighteous anger. While busily responding to this ‘overriding’ argument, there was very little sharing the Gospel of Christ. The ‘prima facie’ evidence of my claim of distraction is in phrases (among others) like, “I have to go; my wife is telling me I’m blogging to much.” “I’m logging in from the church office between services.” (As far as I can tell, the issue remains unresolved.) The bottom line is where is the ‘Christ-like’ attitude and being about “My Father’s Business”?
Where is the balance? The article here, “Simply Seeking Simplicity” talks about the four basic elements of Christianity. Obedience, glorifying God, spreading the gospel, and searching the Scriptures as the foundation by which we live for Christ.
So, here is the “NEW GIMMICK”. I am starting the L4C-T Blog Ring. It is the “Living 4 Christ - Today” blog ring. What is the L4C-T and what is its purpose? The L4C-T blog ring is a list of sites that I have found that are primarily concerned with the ‘nuts and bolts’ of living every day for Christ. Theologians are fine; they are in many respects necessary. However, I return to a verse I referenced above, 2 Corinthians 11:3, “But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.”& another, “For our boasting is this: the testimony of our conscience that we conducted ourselves in the world in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom but by the grace of God, and more abundantly toward you.” 2 Corinthians 1:12
The focus on this blog primarily is ‘spreading the gospel’. That is what we try to do here. It is one of the four ‘by the numbers’ requisites to developing a Christ-like attitude, and being about “My Father’s Business”
We are linking (initially) to two other blogs (they do not know it yet) here in this article and in the sidebar under the “L4C-T Blog Ring” heading. (Some I.E. users have to scroll down to the bottom of the page to see the side bar).
The first is “Pulpit of the Last Days” (POLD). POLD has a ‘Basic Discipleship’ Course set up in modules to take one through many of the fundamentals of basic Bible/Christian doctrine, theology, and the pursuit of a Christ-like attitude by getting to know Christ better from the Scriptures.
The second is “Get Out of the Boat” (GOTB). GOTB is down and dirty basic encouragement. It is very practical encouragement, reminders, and lessons for living every day for Christ.
We will add sites (with an explanation) when they come to our attention. If you have a site suggestion, you can always email me (link in the sidebar) or post a comment.
I will leave the theological, exegetical, lexicographical, hermeneutical, linguistical 200 page debates to those more suited to it. I am a simple man, trying simply to live for Christ.
If you want to know what (I consider) the ‘fundamental doctrines’ of faith and a world view based on the Bible looks like visit my Views: Christian Studies & Principles August Archives. If you want to write 200 pages of debate on a phrase that you find to be ‘questionable’ Biblically, go ahead; just do not expect me to participate. If you do see something that you do not think is Biblical or needs re-wording for clarity - address it simply and I will respond to it, by editing it, clarifying it, or changing it (as I have done posts in the past).
Trying to K.I.S.S. what it means to be a Christian… To develop a ‘Christ-like’ attitude and Be about “My Father’s Business”
Unchained Slave
Please see the ‘Comments’ section for an important note.
posted by Unchained Slave at 11:54 AM
2 Comments:
ONE LONG Comment (kind of ironic isn’t it after the intro article.)
Important Note:
The theological debate mentioned in the article did not in any way impact the Truth about “the Gospel of Jesus, the power of God for salvation…”
This is the ‘long version’ of the ‘basics’ of the Gospel of Christ for salvation.
[1] [2]
Man’s Nature:
Romans 3:23, “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Man’s Depravity and self deceit:
1 John 1:8, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”
Justification (The verdict of ‘not guilty’ for the sins we are guilty of comes through faith and faith alone [Justification is part of and fulfilled at Salvation]):
Galatians 3:24, “Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.”
Jesus, our Savior Lived a sinless life:
1 Corinthian 5:21, “For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”
Christ Died for us:
John 3:16, “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”
Hebrews 2:9, “But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.”
The Death of Christ did in fact ‘pay the price’ of sins for us:
Romans 6:23, “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
Romans 3:24-26, “being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.”
Jesus' Death - was for our salvation, His resurrection, our hope & promise:
1 Peter 1:21, “who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.”
Acknowledging that Jesus was no mere man, Jesus is Lord:
Philippians 2:11, “and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
Hearing and responding to the call, the Great Commission, so one can then partake in sharing it:
Luke 24:46:47, “Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
The ‘Salvation’ you have been invited to accept is THE GIFT of God by grace, through faith: (Ro 10:9-13)
Ephesians 2:8-9, “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,”
After Salvation comes Obedient Service:
Matthew 7:21, “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:”
[1] This is not a ‘definitive, inerrant, infallible’ doctrinal statement. I said the ‘theological’ argument previously mentioned did not change the basis or basics of the 'definition' the Gospel of Christ - This is a ‘bare-bones’ (but by no means simplest) presentation of those elements.
[2] One or two verses are here for each point. Others can be found in the ‘fundamental doctrines’ of faith and a world view based on the Bible at my Views: Christian Studies & Principles August Archives. Additional verses have been included in previous articles. And finally, if one wants clarification of a point here with scriptural references, I will attempt to provide them - keeping in mind - while I will expound on my basic doctrines and beliefs, I will not spend a week hammering back and forth about a single phrase in a single statement. I would like to point out that my own, mentioned, ‘Statement of Faith’ and ‘Declaration of World View’ documents to me are ‘living’ documents. - There are parts of them where I am unyielding and unbending - no argument will sway me. Salvation is an example. Salvation is a Gift of God, by Grace, through faith - there is nothing I can do to merit salvation, period. However, there are parts of my Christian walk and my ‘doctrines’ that can be improved and refined - I consider myself ‘teachable’ and open on some subjects. [I just am finishing an interesting comparison of different doctrines on Hell - my view point is definitely wavering as Biblical, Scriptural arguments overturn ‘traditional’ arguments… My traditional ‘upbringing’ and ‘beliefs’ are being tested - they again, do not affect salvation, just the consequences of not being saved (and they are all bad).]
Hi David,
I found the article you were talking about. It was buried under several other 9-17 page articles, so I had to scroll for quite a while to reach it.
I agree that theologians are sometimes useful to have around, but I have long observed that theology can take on a life of its own. Splitting theological hairs is sometimes necessary, but it can also be an addictive pass time. It's like joining an elite club in which fancy Greek phrases are used to 'wow' and impress each other with the appearance of wisdom and years of study. But the true object, to perceive the testimony of Jesus, so often seems to slide away (John 5:39-44).
I did notice that several of the participants on that ongoing debate had called for a new reformation. Well, let them seek the heart and mind of Christ and that will be the engine to drive their improvements. In fact, with such an emphasis, I think the Lord will meet them and guide them so that they could hardly go wrong (Phil 3:14-15).
Thanks for including me in the L4C-T ring.
Loren
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